Traditionalism vs Contemporary Magisterial Catholicism
15 Key Differences

Here is a review of the main differences between Traditional movements and the Contemporary Magisterium of the Catholic Church. We hope this fissure doesn't become a schism. It' seems like an impossible apocalyptic situation, but Jesus is the God of the impossible.

1) Liturgy

Traditionalism

• Laity, often young families, who attend Traditional Latin Mass (TLM) are enthusiastic
• The TLM is counter-cultural, not like anything else in our culture, reverent, with silence
• Some feel its more "Catholic" than the normative magisterially endorsed Novus Ordo Mass, others believe demons hate Latin and its more effective sprititually
• Critical of the Novus Ordo Mass
• Large subsection, esp. in SSPX, believes claim that Bugnini, architect of Novus Ordo, was a Freemason
• The Traditional Latin Mass (TLM) is the gateway into the world of Tradition
• Degree of adherence to other traditional positions (listed below) tends to be proportional to the amount of time and interaction with the growing TLM community, which becomes an identity

Contemporary Magisterial position

• Accept, obey magisterial authority of Vatican II Sacrosanctum Concilium on the Mass
• Novus Ordo, as practiced in parishes, often contains novelties not found in the Sacrosanctum Concilium
• Novus Ordo can be improved, and is improving in many jurisdictions
• Benedict's 2011 retranslation of Novus Ordo Mass added formality and majesty
• 3 year cycle (Sundays), 2 year cycle (weekdays) gives us more of the Bible than TLM 1 yr cycle
• First 6 centuries didn't have the TLM, which had many adjustments over the centuries
• Slogans like "the devil hates Latin" or "the TLM is more spiritually effective" are like Protestant slogans (i.e., "I don't pray to dead people") predjudice laity, clergy against normative Catholicism
• We have separate articles on New & old forms of Mass, and the accusation Bugnini was Freemason

2) Vatican II

Traditionalism

• Critical of Vatican II
• Some say it was a compromise with the modern world
• A large subsection, particularly in SSPX, say it was instigated and/or hijacked by Freemasons, communists, protestants and modernists

Contemporary

• Accept Pope John XXIII's magisterial authority to call the council
• Agree "the smoke of satan entering the Church" after the council, but believe the effects would have been worse without the council
• The walls surrounding the Church in 1958 were like a medieval castle; great against foot soldiers but not against planes that fly over walls, needed a new strategy
• When 4,000 bishops show up to a council, the Holy Spirit doesn't stay home, regardless of what kind of actors show up at the Council.
• We have about 20 articles of deep dive on Vatican II
• Period before Vatican II was not a golden age, residential schools and over 40% of convicted priest abusers were ordained before Vatican II, including Cardinal McCarrick.

3) Role of the Laity

Traditionalism

• In Mass, Priest speaks or sings almost all prayers and readings
• Occasional responses by laity in Latin
• Eucharist can only be distributed by the Priest
• Traditional communities and schools springing up across North America and Europe
• Many popular traditionalist websites and YouTube channels run by laity, which (perhaps ironically) are empowered by Vatican II's Apostolicam Actuositatem on the laity

Contemporary

• In Mass, Lay lector reads first two readings and a lay cantor sings the Psalms
• Lay Eucharistic Ministers can act on behalf of the priest to distribute Communion, my wife had ALS and I was able to bring her daily communion for 4 years before she died
• Catholic communities springing up as per Benedict Option
• Vatican II's Apostolicam Actuositatem empowers the laity, its why we have this website.

4) Popes since the Second Vatican Council

Traditionalism

• Critical of popes after Pius XII (John XXIII, Paul VI, JPI, JPII, Benedict, Francis)
• Some say they compromised with the modern world
• A large subsection, particularly in the SSPX, believe John XXIII was a Freemason and popes after Pius XII were modernists
• Criticism (or rejection) of magisterial documents from Vatican II and later, including encyclicals, 1983 Canon Law, and 1994 Catechism
• Some traditionally minded Catholics feel they are "more Catholic than the Pope"

Contemporary

• Accept the magisterial authority of John XXIII, Paul VI, JPI, JPII, Benedict XVI, & Francis.
• We hope Pope Leo won't continue Francis' mistake of courting the woke left and shunning traditional Catholics
• Recognize that every pope in history has made pastoral mistakes
• Only modern popes had constant video documenting almost every mistake
• Even the great Saint Pius X made mistakes, such as the disastrous residential schools
• John Paul II was one of the best popes in history but Pope Francis was problematic in many ways
• All popes in history have charism of infallibility on ex-cathedra statements on faith & morals
• All magisterial documents contribute to deposit of faith, supernaturally protected, read with hermeneutic of continuity
• Even Amoris Latetia, can be read properly, otherwise Dubia would have condemned it rather than ask for clairification
• Most post Vatican II encyclicals are amazing, the 1994 Catechism is inspired, a miracle
• Vatican II wasn't a compromise with the modern world, it was a response to it

5) Saints canonized since the council

Traditionalism

• Some post-Vatican II canonized saints are recognized
• Large subgroup, particularly in the SSPX, deny the infallible nature of canonizations after Vatican II, citing JPII's 1983 change to the 17th century "devil's advocate" role
• The Traditional Latin Mass calendar doesn't include post-Vatican II canonizations
• Traditionalists doubt authenticity of St. Faustina and Divine Mercy Sunday
• Canonizations of John XXIII, Pius VI, and JPII are seen as political endorsements for Vatican II rather than authentic canonizations

Contemporary

• Recognizes saints canonized after the Council in the contemporary Liturgical Calendar, including the papal architects and defenders of Vatican II
• Saint Faustina & Divine Mercy Sunday are a godsend as we approach the apocalypse
• We think that feast day alone is worth all the turmoil over the Novus Ordo Mass

6) Relationship to the Holy Spirit and the interior life

Traditionalism

• The term "Holy Spirit" is in traditional liturgies and Divine Office, which are read or sung
• Personal and group prayer is usually memorized or read, Divine Office, Rosary, Lectio Divina, spiritual reading of saints, or daily examen
• Almost never hear "I felt the Holy Spirit prompting me to [take such and such an action]"
• Critical of a "personal relationship" or "interior conversion" model with Jesus, or "spontaneous" prayer during personal or group prayer prayer, although there is often reverence during Communion and Eucharistic Adoration
• Suspicious of subjective experiences with Holy Spirit, particularly in the Catholic Charismatic movement, which is seen as flaky, diabolical, or Protestant

Contemporary

• Love the Divine Office, Rosary, Lectio Divina, and daily examen, etc., but also respond to Catechism's invitation to an "interior ... second conversion ... of the heart" (§1428-30)
• Value personal encounter with Jesus, like the mystics (Joan of Arc, Teresa of Avila, etc)
• Traditionalists seems to misread Pius X's  Pascendi Dominici Gregis which criticised inner subjective experience (or sentimentality) in an agnostic or atheistic context
• Vatican approved Charismatic movement has contributed to the life of the Church, (understanding there have been excesses due to spiritual immaturity)
• The fruits of an interior conversion with Jesus are:
  1. Strong adherence to magisterial teachings on faith and morals, including prolife convictions
  2. Love of Jesus in the Eucharist
  3. Renewed devotion to Mary and the Rosary
  4. Increased vocations to religious life
  5. Renewed focus on evangelization, which results in converts to Catholicism

7) Intimacy in marriage

Traditionalism

• Primacy of procreation over the unitive function of intimacy
• Celibacy is seen as more holy than an intimate marriage relationship
• Intimacy in marriage is not talked about postively, its like a base human requirement, not an amazing gift from God to be celebrated within marriage
• Highly critical of John Paul II's Theology of the Body (TOB)
• Critical of Natural Family Planning (NFP) as a means to space births

Contemporary

• Paul VI's Humane Vitae asserts procreative and unitive factors of marital intimacy
• Theology of the Body reclaimed sex within marriage as a strong unifier and procreation
• Theological correlation between reception of Jesus at communion and a wife's reception of intimacy in marriage, God invented marital intimacy to be enjoyable and unifying
• God created infertile periods which can be legitimately used for unification when there are important reasons not to pursue procreation (NFP)
• We have an article on the charge that Theology of the Body is too sexual
• Contraception, masturbation and IVF are inadmissible and marriage is for life

8) The dignity, equality, and role of women

Traditionalism

• Reject “new feminism” discussed in JPII's  Evangelium Vitae (The Gospel of Life)
• Embrace the current rise of “red-pilled” Catholic influencers like Timothy Gordon proposing female obedience as the antidote to radical secular feminism.

Contemporary

• The Church infallibly and definitively asserts that only men can be priests.
• Supports JPII's assertion that we should avoid “the temptation of imitating models of ‘male domination’” and instead “affirm the true genius of women” 
• JPII's encyclical is still maturing with public discussions among female theologians
• There are an array of interpretations of Eph. 5 (Husband loves, wife respects) but all marriages are opportunities to die to self
• We have an article on the role of women

9) The word "Modern"

Traditionalism

• The word "modern" creates almost a Pavlovian response of revulsion
• When Vatican II talks about the Church in the modern world, red flags go up
• There is a lack of distinction between adapting the gospel to the modern world and adopting the doctrines of modernism that St. Pius X lays out in Pascendi Dominici Gregis

Contemporary

• Totally agree with Pascendi Dominici Gregis' condemnation of modernism
• It was not condeming a contemporary presentation of the timeless Gospel
• It condemned changing the substance of the Gospel message to contemporary novelties, especially atheistic relativism and sentimentality
• St. Pius published the Encyclical with modern printing press, modern communication

10) Relationship to Evangelicals, Protestants other Christians

Traditionalism

• Possible for Protestants to be saved through their baptism and extraordinary Grace
• Avoid dialogue with, cooperation or adopting music or evangelization techniques from Protestants, who can contaminate One True Church, doesn't need that kind of help
• One of the biggest traditional criticisms of Vatican II, was that it bended to Protestant observers and that the Novus Ordo Mass is fundamentally Protestant (even though Anglicans are still ad orientum)
• We have articles discussing those criticisms

Contemporary

There is no salvation outside the Church but separated brethren are part of the Body of Christ through their baptism. Their salvation will depend on their relationship with Jesus and the degree of invincible ignorance they have of the Truth of the Catholic Church. Catholics can learn from Protestants who sometimes are better at:

• Bible literacy and Bible study groups attached to "ecclesiastical communities" (churches)
• Personal commitment and prayerful relationship with Jesus
• Intentional and explicit relationship to the Holy Spirit
• Evangelization of non-christians including welcome and follow up with new members
• Conferences and para-church activities
• Creating a vibrant Christian community
• Christian multimedia, radio, TV, YouTube, etc.
• Christian Contemporary Music
• Organization and involvement in the political process

11) The role of Israel

Traditionalism

• Into Replacement Theology, dominant theory before Vatican II (but was never a doctrine)
• Old Covenant is completely revoked with Jesus, 1948 nation of Israel has no Biblical foundation
• Side against Israel in armed conflicts in Middle East
• Consider JPII, Benedict XVI, Francis' visits to Synagogues sacrilege and scandal
• The Church completely supplanted Judaism, which has no special role after Pentecost
• Public examples include Mel Gibson's famous rant and recent Catholic convert Candace Owens series on Israel
• Highly critical of Evangelical "Zionism"
• Large subgroup who think many problems in the world are due to concentrated Jewish power and political influence, especially in the US and Middle East
• Key traditional influencers propose that the antichrist will be Jewish and the Seven Noahide Laws will become the One World Religion for non-Jews, forcing Christians to acquiesce or face persecution

Contemporary

• Old Covenant was never revoked as per Romans 9-11
• Catholic/Jewish relationship thawed in 1938, when Pius XI said "Antisemitism is inadmissible, spiritually we are all Semites"
• Steady progress in magisterial statements and improved diplomatic relations since then
• JPII was first pope to enter a synagogue and last two popes have followed
• Vatican is critical of violations of just war theory by either side of armed conflict
• Recognizes particular specialness of the Jewish people and God's irrevocable promises
• Catholic converts from Judaism see a correlation between the walk of the Jewish people, and their Saviour's, Passion
• The holocaust in 1945 was like Jesus' crucification and the birth of the State of Israel 3 years later in 1948, was like the Resurrection
• Double blinded: Catholics and Jews don't recognize each other's roles until apocalyptic times when relations will thaw and the Jewish people will enter the Church en masse (Cat §674)
• We have several articles on the Jewish people and Israel
• Note: we don't think the antichrist will be Jewish or Catholic, because there are many groups that wouldn't follow him, he'll likely be a WEF secular UFO advocate

12) Relationship to Muslims and Other Religions

Traditionalism

• Large subsection believes Muslims do not worship the same God as Catholics
• Critical of papal visits and meetings with Muslims, which are viewed as overly accommodating and tending towards universalism
• Sees the Crusades as necessary high point in Christianity's move towards "Thy Kingdom Come on Earth"
• Critical of Pope Francis' signing “A Document on Human Fraternity for World Peace and Living Together,” which spoke of "diversity of religions ... willed by God"
• John Paul II's kissing of the Koran is a core apologetic against his canonization
• Consider World day of prayer 1986 in Assisi scandalous
• Critical of the Catechism §841 which references Vatican II Lumen Gentium 16:

... But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. LG §16

Contemporary

• Lumen Gentium says Muslims "profess" to hold the faith of Abraham, not that they actually hold it (LG §16)
• Muslims don't worship God as Trinity which complicates things, but they do worship God as the single, omnipotent Creator who appeared to Abraham
• We acknowledge Pope Francis was confusing, and should have distinguished God's permissive will from his active will in the multi-faith document
• JPII made a mistake when he kissed the Koran but it was a diplomatic move, not a religious service, like getting out of plane and kissing the ground. It's customary to kiss gifts in Islamic cultures
• The pope simultaneously holds the two precarious and sometimes conflicting roles as religious leader and a diplomat.
• The Vatican is trying to secure safety and freedom for Catholics in Muslim countries.
• Mistakes happen during split second diplomatic decisions that are filmed for the world
• The most even handed discussion of the 1986 World Day of Prayer is here, those entrusted to organizing it made mistakes, but JPII preached a solid "only Jesus saves" message
• We have an article on Muslims

13) Luminous Mysteries of the Rosary by John Paul II

Traditionalism

• Rejects Thursday Luminous Mysteries
• Claim that Our Lady of Fatima said "15 decades"
• The Rosary is based on 150 psalms (15 decades)
• They say JPII had no right to mess with the 13th century Dominican formula

Contemporary

• Our Lady of Fatima set a precedent in 1917 by adding "Oh my Jesus..." prayer to the Dominican formula
• JP II had authority to add the Luminous Mysteries "left to the freedom of individuals and communities"
• Dominican Saint Thomas Aquinas' Summa Theologiae divided 33 mysteries of Jesus’ life into four groups which correspond to the four mysteries of the Rosary, which now better reflects Dominican theology
• The original Rosary has 3 extra "Hail Mary's" which don't match the 150 Psalms
• Our Lady's mention of 15 decades, was to tell us to do a “third” of the decades (15 ÷ 3) or 5 per day
• The Luminous Mysteries are amazing and include "Christ the King" (3rd decade) and the Institution of the Eucharist (5th), the "Source and Summit" of our faith
• Pope JPII's ROSARIUM VIRGINIS MARIAE (2002) is saintly

14) Age of the Earth and Evolution

Traditionalism

• Young Earth Creationism and Geocentricism is espoused by Hugh Owens (Kolbe Center) and Michael Hichborn (Lepanto Institute) which are both Traditional organizations, which (perhaps ironically) borrow arguments from Evangelican Young Earth Creationists
• Creationism not ubiquitous in traditional circles but is a common position and is growing as the lines between the contemporary Church and Traditional movements widen

Contemporary

• The 1994 Catechism says Genesis describes creation "symbolically" which leans towards an old earth
• The contemporary Church asserts a physical Adam and Eve (as per Pius XII)
• Evolution is separate issue, three popes asked the Pontifical Academy of Science to cautiously investigate the claims of evolution and their implications on the faith.
• These requests are not an acceptance of evolution, nor are they magisterial teaching
• Regardless of how God did it, the universe had an Intelligent Designer.
• God made it "Ex Nihlo"
• We have a series of articles on the age of the earth and evolution

15) Role of the Middle Ages

Traditionalism

Nostalgia and admiration for the Middle Ages as the period when Catholicism matured and finally emerged dominant over all other religions and was also the political governing body in Europe. Back then:

• Life was simpler, rural, local and agricultural
• It predated profit motivated industrial capitalism and precarious global supply chains
• Guilds (groups of artisans) community service, artisans took pride in their craftsmanship
• There was a sense of community, a spirit of sacrifice, chivalry, internalization of Jesus
• Generation after generation would work on a single cathedral for hundreds of years
• Slower pace, no TV, internet, computers as distractions and indoctrination
• Abortion, gender ideology, wokeness and LBGTQ+ and other sexual issues were not accommodated or discussed
• Presented as the model for an ideal Christian society

Contemporary

The Middle Ages had a lot that we should draw from and aspire towards, (rural, local community economies, craftsmanship, agriculture, chivalry, etc.) but it couldn't have been the ultimate pinnacle of Christian society because:

• It didn't last
• Dramatic events lead to the Avignon Papacy
• 3 of the 9 worst popes in history spanned the 1100's to 1300's
• Lot of disease, short lifespans, people died from preventable infections
• Plenty of criminal activity (i.e., shaving the edges of precious metal coins)
• Divine Comedy was critical of society and popes, Church endorses Dante who lived then
• Jewish/Christian relations were poor, Jews couldn't own land
• Possible hidden sexual dysfunction, like today in Africa and Muslim countries (internal spiritual deliverance from sin is better than external legal and social pressure)
• Many kings were assasinated, e.g. Duke of Brittany (1202), King Henry I of France (1183), King William II of England, (1100)
• Witchcraft was common
• Henrician heresy (1146)
• Church had recently divided in the east/west schism of 1054
• There were many wars
• We didn't (ultimately) win the Crusades (1095 - 1291)
• Thousands of crusaders engaged in pogroms (killing) of local Jewish communities in Cologne, Mainz, and Worms as they left towns on their way to the middle east

We think the Church is still maturing and God is not done with it. The pinnacle of human history will be when the devil is chained for 1000 (many) years (Rev 20:1-3). Our Lady of Fatima said "In the end my immaculate Heart will Triumph". This is a future event and concupiscence in man will be largely diminished. We think this will be vastly better than the Middle Ages.

Conclusion

There is a sentiment in traditionalist movements that this post conciliar period is the dark ages of Catholicism and if we just hang onto the Church of 1958 we'll ride out this storm until after this modernist movement crashes, causing a return of the precouncil Church. It's tempting to return to the "safety" of a precouncil Church in these apocalyptic times and widespread apostasy, which was predicted in the Bible (2 Thess 2:3).

We don't think that view is sustainable or implementable. It is precarious to deny or undermine the current Magisterium on the issues above, and much is lost in this denial. If there is a schism, we'll be at the feet of the successor of Peter, even if it is a dysfunctional papacy. Among the first 12 apostles, one denied, one betrayed, and 10 abandoned Jesus. 2000 years later, we're still bumping along asking Jesus to protect and guide his Church.

Related articles

• Could the SSPX improve its relationship to the Vatican?
• 20 characteristics of a good Catholic
• Ambiguities in Vatican II
• Characteristics of Modernism
• Bad popes
• Have popes since the council been weak
• Is John Paul II's Theology of the Body (TOB) overly sexual
• Does the Lumen Gentium say there are other ways to Heaven besides Jesus?